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(@skinerd)
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@adrian_hamilton I think that’s a reasonable rule of thumb, at or just before the fall line in short turns where you’re quickly passing through ‘square.’ In a longer turn it’s a more gradual process where it probably starts a bit higher in the arc and you’re closer to square for longer. I tend think more about where the momentum is going rather than the fall line.

Of course the amount of sidecut will come into play as well.


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(@geepers)
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@skinerd - there was an interesting vid from Big Picture Skiing's Sam Robertson a couple of weeks back. Sam is an ex-Alpine racer and the vid was primarily about skiing gates. His point was that from edge change to the rise line above the gate, racers are mostly increasing edge angle through inclination with little angulation and little pressure. At the rise line, when they are sure of making the gate they add angulation to fully engage and pressure the ski.

That's what I (think) see in Vonn's skiing. Edge change between images 4 and 5, hips seem quite square, shoulders still facing more downhill  from last turn. Inclination with only a little angulation through to, say, image 7 and not much change in ski direction. Angulation then increasing from image 7 onwards as the hips move further inside without much change to upper body inclination and the skis change direction significantly through the rest of the turn.

Not running gates at all but was interested to see if this helped pure carving as the pitches get steeper. (It'll be a very gradual increase in steepness for me! Degree by degree...)

Unfortunately... lockdown.... ☹️             


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(@skinerd)
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@geepers Yeah, I think that’s a good way to think about it. Mostly inclination to set up... Then drop the hip and brace for impact... Or add it a little more progressively. 

In the montage, she's seems to be passing through square in frames 6 and 7 as she enters the ‘the control phase’, and still pretty square in frame 8 as she begins angulation but by frame 9 as the angulation increases and there is some separation.


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(@geepers)
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Posted by: @skinerd

Mostly inclination to set up... Then drop the hip and brace for impact.

😀

There's a difference in the approach advocated by Tom Gellie and Richie Berger.

TG is a big fan of the feeling of falling into the new turn (and hopefully having the skis in position to play catch) and even says be prepared to take a tumble whilst mastering that. (He does add that older skiers should exercise discretion...)

RB reckons the feeling of falling is really scary.

As far as I can tell both seem to advocate the same thing for the timing of the new outside leg extension. Lateral, not vertical.

 

 


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@geepers I’m on the same page with TG and RB on that one... That falling feeling is probably my most important cue for toppling and creating the inclination.


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(@skinerd)
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I should add the “brace for impact” is the catching part of that equation.


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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I'd be interested in views about this video of Wendy Holdener. She is undoubtedly one of the best tech skiers on the circuit; however, to my eyes she is massively overflexed in her outside ankle and we know that this locks things up both in the sagital and frontal planes. Do you think this is an idiosyncrasy in her technique, something that could be improved upon or is it that my understanding of race technique is missing something?

ウェンディ・ホルデナー _フリースキー(さらにスロー) - YouTube


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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Katharina Liensberger | 2nd place | Are | Women's Slalom | FIS Alpine - YouTube

Compare that with this run of Katherina Liensberger. This was one of the best slalom runs of the season and being in race mode she's under way more pressure but she is far less flexed. There are just a couple of occasions when she gets a bit out of shape that there's a bit more.


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(@skinerd)
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Posted by: @adrian_hamilton

I'd be interested in views about this video of Wendy Holdener. She is undoubtedly one of the best tech skiers on the circuit; however, to my eyes she is massively overflexed in her outside ankle and we know that this locks things up both in the sagital and frontal planes. Do you think this is an idiosyncrasy in her technique, something that could be improved upon or is it that my understanding of race technique is missing something?

ウェンディ・ホルデナー _フリースキー(さらにスロー) - YouTube

I think the appearance of ankle flex is somewhat exaggerated by the padding on her knees but it certainly does appear she has her boots set up with a fair bit of forward lean.

This may be due to body proportions. It’s pretty common to require a little more forward lean/ankle flexion in women with more mass around their hips. 

The skis are performing really well through most of the arc, so I’d say she’s right where she needs to be…

…except for a small loss of the outside ski right at the very end of the arc, just as she’s about to transition into the new turn. I suspect if she pushed that outside foot through a touch more (or kept a slightly straighter outside ankle as you suggest) she’d get a little extra kick across the hill. 


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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Posted by: @skinerd

except for a small loss of the outside ski right at the very end of the arc, just as she’s about to transition into the new turn. I suspect if she pushed that outside foot through a touch more (or kept a slightly straighter outside ankle as you suggest) she’d get a little extra kick across the hill. 

That's what I saw and was thinking of that as a solution but wondered if I was missing something her being such a great skier, the 'Nearly Woman' of the World Cup. 


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Reilly McGlashan points out the need to look at a whole run rather than draw conclusions from a turn or two when it comes to WC skiers.

And we don't have much to compare with the run in China to allow for snow conditions,  boot setup, intent (wider turn type), etc.

Also worth keeping in mind that Wendy Holdener came 4th in the Are event. Watching her ski on the same run as the others is the ankle flex noticeably different from that of Vlhova, Liensberger and Shiffrin?


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(@skinerd)
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@geepers Agreed, both the ankle flex and the symptom are not as apparent on course.  The snow conditions are clearly very different… but I think her intent is the big unknown factor here.

This is pure speculation, but racers are much more likely to be caught in the back seat in a course, so a pretty common coaching tactic to exaggerate forward pressure while training at slower speeds. 


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(@geepers)
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@skinerd and @adrian_hamilton - slightly different question, same skier.

Remembered that Reilly did a Shiffrin-Holdener slalom technique comparison back in 2018. He pointed out that Holdener had a left-right turn asymmetry and was less angulated/separated and more inclined on turns to the right with subsequent loss of ski performance on that side.

Looking at the Are run 2021 (posted above) looks to me like that has been somewhat corrected although it's still there to some extent. The last few gates provides the best head-on view. Any thoughts?


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(@skinerd)
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@geepers A little fuzzy due to slow satellite internet… but really good analysis by Reilly. I agree it is still apparent in the Are vid but perhaps to a lesser extent. You can see her timing a little off on that side as well.


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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This is definitely worth watching. So much great information.

Everything Ski Boots - Tom Gellie chats with Brent Amsbury | Master Boot Fitter - YouTube


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