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(@geepers)
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Good advice there @skinerd - sometimes need to see things from a different viewpoint or angle to see what's going on. Come to think of it that was the case with one skier in the last Teach assess. Bumps. Tasked them to ski a narrow corridor and this guy would occasionally extend wide - he was doing it in the troughs out of sight from a downhill view. Didn't really make the chance to re-impose the same task parameters until the final run and never really got that guy sorted which counted against.

@adrian_hamilton - the new manuals appear to open up considerably. The question I was looking to get answered next training module: is there a specific CSIA way to ski? Maybe @skinerd could comment wrt the L3 tasks.

 

Edit: Should add that I thought there was a definite CSIA style at Interski 2019. 

 

This post was modified 1 month ago by gpatters

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(@skinerd)
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@geepers @adrian_hamilton Things have evolved so rapidly over the last couple years, I’m not sure if the CSIA has a ‘way of skiing’ that can be identified separately from other certifying bodies. There’s a lot open to interpretation, and in my isolation, I’ve always adhered a little closer to the ‘Vancouver Island Technical Model;)’

Certainly the objectives for CSIA exam maneuvers are quite specific and there are certainly stylistic similarities amongst many CSIA Course Conductors, but I attribute this more to training and skiing together than consciously trying to achieve a similar look.

I suppose old technical reference was an attempt to more clearly define ‘CSIA technique’ and this does seem to have opened up a little now, but I believe it will remain a pretty valid set of rules of thumb for most situations. There has always been a fairly strong emphasis on leading the turning effort with the lower body and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next year or two. I’m looking forward to getting off the Island and onto some bigger courses where I can get into deeper  dialogue with other CC’s. 

 


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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What would you see as the main skill development for the Outside to Outside Hop Turns? Fore/ aft balance, pressure control, use of all the joints?


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(@skinerd)
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@adrian_hamilton I would say like any outside ski drill, balance through the middle of the outside ski is the clearest potential development focus as it offers instant feedback on that.

Lateral issues are pretty obvious if you have to put the inside ski down. Of course lateral issues are often caused by rotational issues, which are often caused by fore/aft or vertical issues.

Fore/aft adjustments have a more dramatic effect when one ski is in the air and it is instantly apparent when tail is pressured (the skis takes off) or when the tip is pressured (the ski over-steers/tail slips out)... and the the side foot comes down.

There is also a big emphasis on pressure control here. The idea being that the pressure is managed in such a way that it makes the hop from one ski to the other easy. This requires precise timing and coordination of the moves.

My strategy here is make the turns rhythmical and linked, increasing the steering/edge grip slightly at the end of the arc so the snow to pushes back, ideally to the point where you don’t have to jump... instead the turn forces/snow jumps you.


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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@skinerd Thanks. I especially like the last tip.


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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This may have been covered before, but I was listening to Tom Gellie's latest Webinar about using metaphors in teaching/ coaching and particularly the value of external cues. It seems they have much greater impact than internal cues according to the research he refers to.

Not to say there is no merit using internal cues but just that external cues seem to be far more powerful at all levels.

It requires a lot of thought but it's certainly something I intend to focus on in any future teaching. 

A really nice example he used was looking at sprinters and thinking about running like a jet plane as opposed to a helicopter. For me that one needs no further explanation and is very powerful. It's also one that could be very easily adapted to transitions.


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(@geepers)
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Posted by: @adrian_hamilton

A really nice example he used was looking at sprinters and thinking about running like a jet plane as opposed to a helicopter. For me that one needs no further explanation and is very powerful. It's also one that could be very easily adapted to transitions.

Haven't watched that vid yet. Maybe it explains but currently I'm a little baffled on what the jet fighter vs helicopter metaphor means.


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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@geepers everything moving forward as opposed to up. Haha, I just realised I should have added the crucial 'taking off.'


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(@geepers)
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Just finished a public Zoom presentation run by the CSIA Ontario crew (Perry Schmunk and Jeff Marks). Covering "Assessment within the Skills Framework".

Was the second session run by them - apparently recordings will be posted to SnowPro and elsewhere.

Very interesting session providing insight into how assessment and task design is intended to work under the new documents.

Key take-aways (for me):

  • Can only do 3 things with a ski - twist / tip / manage pressure
  • How the ski behaves on the snow is as close to the "truth" as we can get
  • Discussing what the ski is doing (or should be doing) is typically a short conversation
  • Discussing how to get the ski to do it is typically a longer conversation given there are multiple ways to achieve the outcome
  • So 1st figure out what is going on with the ski and then what it should be doing
  • It's easier to ask: what do/did you want the ski to do? than to ask: what do/did you do?
    • It tends to de-personalise the situation
    • It makes it easier to suggest: "try this to <get more grip> (or whatever)"

And of course (not covered yet) last bit leads on to developing an appropriate task, pre-emptively asking the skier "after the run I'm going to ask if the ski had <more grip> (or whatever)" and hence on to understanding cause and effect.

They used some vid clips of skiers in actions to highlight the approach. The last one was the most interesting - it featured Tobin (in orange Section 8 jacket) being followed by another skier. Prompting questions: What are the skis of the 2 skiers doing that is different? Why? (Twisting / tipping / managing pressure). Nice round turns @skinerd !

Well worth watching these sessions. There will be more. They are promoted via FB. Keep an eye out for the recordings.


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(@skinerd)
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@geepers Cool, I guess they had some sneaky footage from the CC update a couple years ago. Will have to watch that. 

I think those are pretty good take always from the latest CSIA developments. As you know, I’m totally onboard with this new approach of focusing on the skis interaction with the snow. In fact, I built an entire website around it:)

I personally like to boil it down even further to a single skill of ‘Pressure Control.’

Twisting (or creating a ‘steering angle’ by other means) and tipping the skis are the essential ingredients to develop and manage the ‘pressure’ required to change direction. This pressure can be further managed through vertical and fore/aft moves... which in turn, affect a skiers ability to twist and tip.


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(@geepers)
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@skinerd - it was a clip with you skiing in front and the 2nd skier in greenie/black gear with Rossi Exp 84 skis (I think) synchro-ing on your turn timing.

Yes, Science Friction is going to be an even more useful resource. 

Interesting that you should highlight pressure management. As that was pretty much the key to understanding why the 2nd person's skis were twisting early in the turn (ahead of Dr Ken's clock) compared to yours which were tipping and producing distinctive round turns. 


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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@geepers really interesting takeaways. I saw these advertised on Facebook but understood they were only for Ontario members. I'll keep an eye out for the next one.


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(@geepers)
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Wasn't sure - seemed to imply ok for any CSIA member. Although I'd imagine the system would have a meltdown if all 20,000+ turned up. ? 

It seems something all members need to see so hopefully they will have recordings of the 1st 2 sessions on snowpro soon. 


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(@adrian_hamilton)
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@geepers I hope so. Snowpro hasn't been very active lately.


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(@therealmrtall)
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Posted by: @geepers

@skinerd - it was a clip with you skiing in front and the 2nd skier in greenie/black gear with Rossi Exp 84 skis (I think) synchro-ing on your turn timing.

I wonder if that would have been Mike Manara. I haven't seen the video, but I recall seeing @skinerd and Mike in a photo in some CSIA materials -- one of the manuals or such that was available online via Snowpro.


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